Forum Activity for @folkfan

Skip, A simple fact is that you can't play a true mixolydian mode tune which uses the flatted 7th note in DAA which gives you the scale notes needed for Ionian mode tunes. DAd is the tuning needed for mixolydian mode tunes as the 6th fret will have the flatted note of the mixolydian scale.

Most people now who are using a DAd tuning aren't really playing mixolydian tunes which are actually fairly rare compared to Ionian mode tunes. With the addition of the 6+ fret a player can get the Ionian scale to start at the open position tuned DAd. Traditionally the Ionian scale started at the 3rd fret on a completely diatonic (no extra frets) instrument.

So my brother will play "Brother John" in DAd as 0120, 0120, 234,234, etc. while I play the same song in DAA as 3453,3453,567,567. The notes are exactly the same, DEF#D, DEF#D, F#GA, F#GA tuned DAd or DAA.

And it doesn't matter if you play noter/drone or chord the melody notes remain the same. The only thing that changes is where you find them on the fret board. So chord finger patterns change but a D chord is a D chord. There isn't even a change in the drones as the DA drones in DAd or DAA remain at the same tuning.

Some people though when playing chords or finger picking can find the drones irritating. I was actually told to my face by someone that she didn't like the drones. She was the type that wanted the group to only play chord/melody so that everyone would sound alike.

Robin;

The question is based on Paul Certo's post about a player playing a DAA tabbed tune in DAdd. That player was 3 frets off of the SMN notes. In other words, when the tab indicated a DAA 3 {d} on the melody, the player was playing a DAdd 3 {g, s/b 0 [d]}. That's why it seems to me you should pay attention to the notes even if using TAB [Tab positions the fingers to the fretboard, not the notes].

PS-Skip, I point you to a couple videos my husband and I did and they can be found on My Page here at FOTMD. You're under no obligation to watch. If you'd like to see someone playing simple harmonies/back-up, look for "I'm Troubled" and "Down the Road". I apologize for the examples being my own play yet that's all I know, really.

Skip,

I don't have a good grasp of modes; my ear is my guide. I only play noter/drone and, occasionally, get to jam with dulcimer friends who are chord/melody players and we blend fine.

I'm not sure I understand your last paragraph. (. . . can't you play a mixo tune in DAA [tuned DAdd] as long as you play the notes, not the fret numbers [TAB], and all of the notes are available? Am I forgetting the effect of the drones? )

I'll take a stab, though. As long as you have the notes available, I don't see why not. Give it a try and let your ear be your guide, bearing in mind the drone effect . Modern ears aren't used to the drone effect .

Skip said:

Won't some of this depend on the style of the player, xxx/chord vs xxx/drone? Most of the folks I play with chord or fingerpick the melody, a few fingerdance. A couple of them can do harmonies, in DAdd.

I don't think many of them, maybe a couple, even know what a mode is. I know, technically, what they are, but don't really understand them. Probably because I play the separate notes as shown in SMN [or TAB].

I suppose the only way I can find out for sure, with my group, is to try it.

I'm probably wrong, but can't you play a mixo tune in DAA [tuned DAdd] as long as you play the notes, not the fret numbers [TAB], and all of the notes are available? Am I forgetting the effect of the drones?

Won't some of this depend on the style of the player, xxx/chord vs xxx/drone? Most of the folks I play with chord or fingerpick the melody, a few fingerdance. A couple of them can do harmonies, in DAdd.

I don't think many of them, maybe a couple, even know what a mode is. I know, technically, what they are, but don't really understand them. Probably because I play the separate notes as shown in SMN [or TAB].

I suppose the only way I can find out for sure, with my group, is to try it.

I'm probably wrong, but can't you play a mixo tune in DAA [tuned DAdd] as long as you play the notes, not the fret numbers [TAB], and all of the notes are available? Am I forgetting the effect of the drones?

It can work, but it can have pitfalls for players who don't understand modes. I have seen players use DAD tuning while playing from DAA tabs. This doesn't work at all. The melody is in G, while the drones or chords are in D. The harmony clashes even when no other instruments are present. Add a chord playing guitarist, mandolin,etc, and it really sounds terrible. This is partly due to the mistaken idea that a few extra frets will make the dulcimer do anything without ever using a different tuning. It will do a lot, if the correct arrangement is used, and the correct extra frets are installed to make the notes available. But a 6+ fret won't make DAA play a mixolydian melody in D.

Paul

I think I meant something like that, Skip. I'm a by-ear player so anytime I go talking about what I'm doing things get dicey.

Skip said:

Robin;

I've been learning how bass players do their thing, so what you posted makes perfect sense to me. I'm assuming when you said 't he note that matches the key of the tune', you meant the root note of the key or indicated chord; D, G, or A in the key of D for example.

Robin;

I've been learning how bass players do their thing, so what you posted makes perfect sense to me. I'm assuming when you said 'the note that matches the key of the tune', you meant the root note of the key or indicated chord; D, G, or A in the key of D for example.

Skip, if what I wrote makes no sense, feel free to ask me questions. I'm not good at explaining things.

Thanks y'all.

All D tunings work together

DAA, DAd, Ddd, ddd, DAC, DAG just to name the most common. Try Ddd - you won't have to change any strings and you get the Galax sound with an extra deep bass note.

I've jammed with mountain dulcimer friends who use DAd as their home base tuning. (My home base tuning is DAA.) To me, the different voicings sound better than if everyone's tuned the same. Out of DAA, I'll re-tune to DGG, EAA; the keys of D, G, and A cover a lot of fiddle tunes. A Ddd or ddd tuning is really handy for covering 2 keys without re-tuning.

I love playing harmonies! When playing harmonies, remember that if a note doesn't sound right to your ear, you're only a fret away from a good-sounding note most of the time. To begin to learn to play harmonies, just play solid rhythm on the note that matches the key of the tune. More importantly, whether playing melody or harmony, it's the rhythm that holds things together-- it's not the notes. To practice good rhythms, put on any pre-recorded music you like, mute your dulcimer's strings, and strum with the music. Vary rhythms, skip beats, let your hand do whatever feels right-- it's more felt than thought. Kinda like playing air guitar. It's fun!

I should install a set of ddd and try that with some friends [if I can remember to do it]. Are there other tunings that may work with DAdd, other than DAA? My friends seem to enjoy the challenges and are willing to try new things even though they usually stick with a pretty standard set of tunes, with a some new tunes, every season.

I also need to figure out how to do harmonies. Any suggestions for someone not a 'good player', or to pass on to others?

Ken, did you finger pick in DAG?

Using different tunings works just fine as long as everyone is in the same key.

I've done such wacky things to prove this to some groups as playing in DAG when everyone else was in DAd. In such 'stuck' groups dedicated to one tuning, I almost invariably play in DAA, as it's my 'go to' tuning. A great many stuck DAd players don't even know that the majority of songs they are playing are not in Mixolydian Mode and don't need to be played in DAd. As Rob said, a good player in a different tuning can create harmonies and other parts around a bunch of folks playing with a one track mind.

Skip, I went to the spring gathering of the Mountaineer Dulcimer Club here in north central West Virginia this year. These folks all play in DAA, almost exclusively. I re-tuned for the teaching part, but for the jamming I tuned back up to DAd. I found I could play harmonies quite easily with them. They had never had anyone do that before nor heard anything like it, but they seemed to enjoy it and invited me back any time!

Rob

Have you participated in a MD group that the players were using different, compatible tunings, for example DAdd, DAA, and ddd [everyone playing each tune, the different tunings being usedsimultaneously]? I was just curious since it happens all the time with groups using mixed instruments, guitars, dulcimers, fiddles, double bass, etc. If so, how do you think it worked out?

Some of us use multiple tunings, sometimes to play different modes, sometimes because we find some songs don't suit our vocal range in certain keys. I can't sing Canary keys with my bullfrog vocal chords. Some songs suit me in G, some work better in other keys. But we can only loosen our strings so much before they stop sounding clear notes. We can only tighten them so much before they break. This limits what keys we can use and some players have multiple dulcimers set up with different string gauges for this reason. The lure of buying additional dulcimers has it's own appeal, of course.

Paul

Do people switch back and forth to play various songs...

Heck yes! Songs come in different Modes - feelings if you will - bright & cheerful, mournful & sad for example. The different Modal tunings reflect those feelings to an extent - DAA vs DAC or DAG. Changing the melody string by one or two notes doesn't seem like much, but it makes a world of difference in the sound.

Isn't that hard on the strings?

Well... yeah. But nothin' lives forever and at less than $3 per set, strings are cheap! And if you're scared of changing them, it's time for some Tough Love

Read my Blog articles here: I Just Got A Dulcimer, Now What? and Uncontrite Modal Folker to learn more about changing tunings, modes and general dulcimerness.

In hopping around this site I've found another use/reason for changing tunings too. I'll just give an example to try and make it short, easy and within the limits of my understanding.

Your dulcimer may play/sound better in a different tuning. I built a small dulcimer some time back and although I could tune it using a digital tuner it just didn't sound all that good. I went to lighter guage strings and that helped but it was still kind of flat sounding. From DAAa (after reading Lisa's blog) I changed to gddd ... WOW! It was like finding a new dulcimer. This little dulcimer has a short vibrating string length (VSL) and the one piece fretboard/tuning head was kept short as well.

Now that little dulcimer has gone from a wall hanger to one that I enjoy often.

Your dulcimer will probably sound great in DAA or DAD, but you'll be greatly rewarded later if you get over your fear of making changes now. Make it part of your learning experience.

Hi Katie,

Those who play in traditional styles are likely to retune more than those players who use chords (ie traditional players play the melody just on the melody string and use the other strings as drones). This is because melody(or noter)/drone players need to re-tune to change key or move from major to minor or into another mode such as mixolidian.A contemporary player can makesuch shifts in key or mode using differnt chord shapes and/or a capo from a single tuning - usually DAd.

Strumelia is right that some players, even traditional ones, stay in one tuning. There are families such as the Graves or the Meltons who have a history of using just one tuning since the 1860s (not a typo - the same tuning for 150 years!!!).

Personally, I like to use a lot of tunings as I enjoy finding the right timbre to match a tune. Also I play with many other traditional musiciansat sessions and so I will need to re-tune for old fiddle tunes in saythe keys of A or Gas well as D during an evening set.

As Strumelia says, I wouldn't worry too much about shortening the life of your strings by re-tuning - breaking strings is going to happen anyway at some point so learning to change them quickly is a handy skill anyway.

There is a page of info here that may give you an idea about why those using traditional playing styles would need to re-tune.

http://mountaindulcimer.ning.com/group/oldstyledronenoterplayers/page/tunings-for-noter-drone-beginner-intermediate

Robin

Hi Katie,

Lots of dulcimer players change tunings back and forth to play in different keys, or in different modes, etc.

Some change tunings often, some not so often, and some folks don't like to ever change tunings! There are many people who always stay in DAd, and many who always stay in DAA, for example. Some of the folks who dislike re-tuning do have more than one dulcimer, kept in a different tuning. This doesn't necessarily made them a 'pro' however! ;)

Re-tuning often can shorten the life of a string to one degree or another, but then strings are cheap and easily changed, and no string lasts forever anyway. Guitar players and banjo players break strings regularly, it doesn't faze them too much. Trying to tune up to a note in the wrong octave though will break a string for sure!

Clubs and workshops often have everyone stay in one tuning for convenience sake, by the way.

I suggest you at least try out both DAd and DAA at least. ...and who can resist playing Shady Grove in the haunting aeolian DAC tuning....?

How 'bout "Groundhog?"

Here comes Sally with a snigger and a grin

Groundhog gravy all over her chin

Ken, a discussion on songs about food might be a nice idea!

Ken Hulme said:

Boiled cabbage, squirrel heads in gravy, five pounds of possum, Peas pease eatin' goober peas, how many other food related songs are there of similar nature???

Boiled cabbage, squirrel heads in gravy, five pounds of possum, Peas pease eatin' goober peas, how many other food related songs are there of similar nature???

Boiled cabbage is easy. Chop it into about 2"x3" pieces and simmer a few minutes - just until it's limp. Don't boil it into submission. I like to season mine with caraway seeds, apples and/or apple cider, and bratwurst or loose mild Italian sausage.

There is going to be 'boneless chicken' HOT WINGS for dinner.

Guys I'm pretty stoked about these mushrooms. This is my first experience with them. I lightly floured and sauteed these but I can see onion/pepper/shroom stir fry in my near future!

They do retain most of the color. I just had more for dinner. These things are just great. They actually do have a meaty texture and flavor. Maybe a little like chicken. They're very good and a fall mushroom sure is nice. Until now, the spring morels were all I could take advantage of. I think these dudes are plentiful here as well. I will be freezing all I can.

Tastes just like chicken....

Good lookin' 'shrooms, Sam.

Was researching fall mushrooms this morning and ran across 'Chicken of the Woods'. Said they grow around oak. I have oak. So... found some, harvested them, cooked 'em and BOY ARE THEY DELICIOUS !!!

... especially the bread. I loved 'batter bread'. Made in a pan like cornbread but with flour instead of cornmeal. Made good 'fried' bread too!

My Dad's familywere coal miners from southern Illinois who had moved west from western Virginia. I've noticed that a lot of thedishes I encounter in KY are very similar to the ones I ate growing up...even though I lived in Michigan and NC! I'm so glad my mom learned how to make those traditional meals....helps keep our heritage alive!

Dana R. McCall said:

Mamaw used to cook neck bone and potatos to, when we would go over there my oldest daugther, when she was little used to ask "Mamaw you got any that good old fashion meat" lol Don't know why she called it that she was just about 5.

Sam said:

Hi Jan;

We didn't add noodles but we often cooked 'backbone n ribs' in a big roaster with potatoes. We canned (cold packed) meat in home canning jars, so all the bones were trimmed pretty close ... but ... those wonderful tidbits were left on the backbone, ribs and yes, the neck bones. Settling at the bottom of the pot was what mom called 'red-eye' gravy. Sop a biscuit in that just once and you'll never forget the great flavor. Some of the fast food houses now offer a 'dippin' sauce with some sandwiches ... if they only knew !!!

Love your recipe, an' I ain't fancy.

Mamaw used to cook neck bone and potatos to, when we would go over there my oldest daugther, when she was little used to ask "Mamaw you got any that good old fashion meat" lol Don't know why she called it that she was just about 5.

Sam said:

Hi Jan;

We didn't add noodles but we often cooked 'backbone n ribs' in a big roaster with potatoes. We canned (cold packed) meat in home canning jars, so all the bones were trimmed pretty close ... but ... those wonderful tidbits were left on the backbone, ribs and yes, the neck bones. Settling at the bottom of the pot was what mom called 'red-eye' gravy. Sop a biscuit in that just once and you'll never forget the great flavor. Some of the fast food houses now offer a 'dippin' sauce with some sandwiches ... if they only knew !!!

Love your recipe, an' I ain't fancy.

Thanks C I've been wanting a good BNB recipe.

Carrie Barnes said:

I'm SO glad this thread has started!!! Here's my contribution, it's an old Mennonite recipe for those of you that love dessert breads. It's a dark,heavy bread, but foolproof! I make this every year for neighbors, friends at Christmas time. But it's also a great dessert bread, add a little whipped cream on top and you're good to go!

Banana Bread

1/2 cup unsalted butter

1 cup sugar

1 cup nuts (your choice.....pecan or walnuts)

2 Xlarge eggs

1 tsp baking soda

dash of salt

1 1/2 c all purpose flour

3 large ripe bananas

Bake @ 325 in greased/floured bread pan for 1 hour 15 minutes

Mash the bananas on a plate w/fork, then mix w/remaining ingredients.

ENJOY!

Hi Jan;

We didn't add noodles but we often cooked 'backbone n ribs' in a big roaster with potatoes. We canned (cold packed) meat in home canning jars, so all the bones were trimmed pretty close ... but ... those wonderful tidbits were left on the backbone, ribs and yes, the neck bones. Settling at the bottom of the pot was what mom called 'red-eye' gravy. Sop a biscuit in that just once and you'll never forget the great flavor. Some of the fast food houses now offer a 'dippin' sauce with some sandwiches ... if they only knew !!!

Love your recipe, an' I ain't fancy.

From my mother, passed down from her father-in-law (my paternal grandfather or "Dad's Dad")

Neck Bones and Noodles

My mother simmered pork neck bones with onions and seasonings. Don't know if squirrel heads would work just as well. Either strain the broth to remove the bones or remove carefully with a slotted spoon.

The noodles are simple:

Break an egg or two into a bowl, add enough flour to make a dough that's not too tacky to roll out. Cut the rolled noodle doughinto strips or diamonds or whatever shape you like. Drop into the broth from the bones and cook til done. Serve in a bowl, garnished with salt and black pepper. Add a squeeze of fresh lemon if you feel like being real durn fancy.

HEHEHEHEHE, Sam, as to children. My little one doesn't eat meat much more than I do. I picked up the go "TOFU" routine from her. Drives my hubby nuts.

And nuts is what I had for dinner with veggies and rice noodles. Dry roasted unsalted peanuts to be exact.

Awwww FF I'm sorry to hear that. It's just terrible when we can't tolerate the foods that are so tasty. If you have children in the family (neighborhood, church group, scout pack) this is a great Saturday night project. Made thin or deep dish, the crust is just great.

Dana, Can you say "Buttah"

Dana R. McCall said:

Sorry but that is suposed to be 1/2 stick of butter.

Sam, Your Original Pizza looks good. Certainly one that my husband would enjoy. Unfortunately the last time I ate pizza that had a decent amount of fat in it, I got a tummy ache. That was just last week. My tummy's been out of training on eating meat fats for a year now.

Sam said:

Sams Original Pizza

Sorry but that is suposed to be 1/2 stick of butter.

Salmon Patties

In a sauce pan on top the stove, combine 2 or 3 heaping tablespoons of flour ,

A stick of butter, salt and pepper and add a can of evaporated milk to make a thick white sauce.

You want it thick almost like dough so add the milk slow, you might not need all of it.

Set it aside to cool.

Open your cans of salmon (I make a lot of these so I use at least 5 cans and Ive always liked Prelate the best) anyway Mom used to always go through the salmon and take out all the bones and the shiny silver skin (but if you like it keep it)

In a bowl mix the salmon and most of the white sauce, bout and you can chop up a onion and add at this time if you want it.(I dont because my kids dont like the onion) Roll the mix into small balls, little bigger than a golf ball and put on a plate or cookie sheet and set in fridge to set up for a little while(you dont have to do this but it makes it easier to work with)

Take 2 or 3 eggs and beat up (apologise to them) and take a couple sleeve of zesta crackers and crush um up real fine.

Now take salmon balls and dip in egg and roll in crackers, redip and crumb a second time. Have a hot skillet of Crisco or what ever oil you prefer on the stove. You are going to want the oil good and hot and about a in deep(I use a large cast iron skillet for this) Put the salmon in and I flatten mine out like a hamburger patty. Fry till golden brown on both sides then dip out onto a paper towel to soak up grease.

I make a big batch of homemade biscuits to eat them on: Angle biscuits really easy, just couple cups of self risen flour and heavy whipping cream. Use enough cream to make a nice dough dont over work, roll um out and cook them. Only 2 ingredients EASY and GREAT.

You can also take what white sauce was left over, thin it down to a nice gravy and add velveta cheese to pour over your salmon. Lip smackin good. Only problem with these is you can't stop eating them. They are really good cold to.